I’ve heard many times that the division that occurred between fundamentalists and new evangelicals in the middle of the last century was an especially “American” issue. Perhaps that is a mistaken notion, especially in light of the fact that representatives of both mindsets/movements can be found around the globe. Nonetheless, this particular battle began in the States, its principle participants in the early years were Americans, and it seems to have led to a more distinct line between the two positions in America than elsewhere.
With that in mind, I was curious to hear this lecture by Peter Masters, the pastor of Spurgeon’s Metropolitan Tabernacle in London, in which he reviews and critiques new evangelicalism. After presenting a history and description of new evangelicalism, Masters issues particularly strong warnings about J. I Packer, John Stott and James Dobson. As you might expect, he has special interest in Stott, who has also ministered in London for several decades.
The lecture was given in 1996 and is the first of a 2 -part series (the other lecture may be found here; I have yet to hear it). The first is fascinating to me. I agree with Masters’ criticisms of the new evangelical movement, though I get the sense that he “shoots from the hip” a bit. In particular, I’m not sure that his portrayal of Dobson is accurate. Now, I’m not defending Dobson, and I disagree with much of what he believes and does; I’m just questioning whether he would agree with the way he is represented by Masters.
Again, it’s interesting to hear Masters address the issue. I’d be interested in your thoughts if you get a chance to hear it.
Filed under: Contemporary Issues, Fundamentalism, Mp3's |
My Two Cents 
Andy Efting pointed out to me that the comments portion of this thread had been turned off heretofore. That’s fixed now, and you can chime in if you desire. I apologize.
Chris,
This lecture is fascinating. I know virtually nothing about Masters but it was shocking to hear someone speak like that who is outside our Fundamentalist orbit. It’s almost like he didn’t get the memo. Doesn’t he know that you can’t equate externals with worldliness anymore? Can you imagine the outcry if he posted those thoughts over on SI?
He never really got to how you respond to a New Evangelical. Can you still fellowship with him or do you have to separate? It would have been interesting to hear his take on the separation question.
Hi Chris. I have almost finished listening to the first message, about 8 minutes left of it. I have to get to the office, too much going on today.
First, I want to thank you for pointing me to the files. Masters is just excellent. I was struck by how much he sounds like Martyn Lloyd-Jones in his speaking style, but this is not surprising, considering that Masters is somewhat of a disciple of L-J, see Murray’s second volume on L-J. BTW, if you want to compare Masters and L-J, I recommend this message by L-J on Eph 2.4: But God. For those of you more Calvinistically inclined than me, you will love it even more than I did (it does cost $5 for the download):
MLJ.4041mp3 – But God.
Back to Masters, in the history section, he highlights the two key events in Britain that sold out the gospel, one by Packer and the other by Stott. They are nothing but Judases, in my opinion. Many of the vaunted evangelicals in America are the same.
I agree with Andy that his criticism of worldliness will make the YFs squirm. Spot on. I don’t agree with Masters on his view of the will of God and the “dot”. While I don’t ascribe to everything Gary Friesen says in his book that popularized the term “the dot”, I think that the traditional approach to finding God’s will is oddly subjective in the midst of our mostly objective approach. This is a minor quibble.
I also wondered about how much Masters knows about the scene in North America. He is fairly close to MacArthur and especially likes Phil Johnson. I don’t know what kind of relationship he would have with BJU or folks of that persuasion. It seems to me that while MacM et al are not guilty of new evangelicalism in the sense of consorting with the liberals, there is a certain looseness in the area of worldliness that is an undercurrent in their ministry as well as the — what shall we call it? — sloppiness in associations that somewhat undercuts their vaunted self-promotion as independents.
That’s my take so far. I have to listen to the second message yet and may comment again after that.
Regards,
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
Jennifer and I heard Masters preach when we visited Metropolitan while in London a couple years ago. Fantastic preacher, great congregational singing, and the church appeared to have a great outreach and evangelism program. They also had a number of well-thought out advertisements in the Underground. Jon and Jenn Taylor (BJU grads who are living in London) are attending his church and have spoken highly of the church and of Masters preaching. It’s great the way he brought Metropolitan back from the brink of non-existence.
Hey, I finished those last eight minutes and I have to say they were as impressive as the rest of the message. That is where Masters emphasizes “worship is words”. A pretty significant point, I think.
I am halfway throught the second message and am very impressed with his debunking the New Evangelical hermeneutical approach. Very interesting. I think he is saying that the NEs are “neo-orthodox” on hermeneutics — i.e., they use the same terminology but mean different things. I think I will ruminate on that a bit and blog on it more later. I have an example from my OT series that came to mind immediately.
Regards,
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
As a current member of the Met Tab, I would like to comment on this post. Dr. Masters has been pastor since 1970 and has probably experienced (almost) every -ism that has reared its ugly head in the Christian world. He used to be a frequent visitor to the US, but not anymore and is well-known to many around the world.
Concerning the different issues that are mentioned in this post, may I suggest these books that the Met Tab has published:
1) Are we fundamentalists?
2) Worship in the Melting Pot.
3) Not like any other book (about Biblical Interpretation).
4) Steps for Guidance.
They are written by Peter Masters.
As a former All Souls Church “attendee”, all I can say about John Stott is – he is a gifted preacher and a good leader. There are many things which he has said which are spot-on, but I am concerned with the things that are NOT SAID.
Jenson, thanks for chiming in. I have a couple of Dr. Masters books (not the ones listed) and have enjoyed them. I’m thinking I should perhaps send in an order for the ones you list.
Anyway, may I ask how long you have been a member of the Met Tab? I am curious about the history. 1970 would be two years after Lloyd-Jones retirement. Did some growth at Met Tab in the 70s come from the different direction that L-J’s successor took at his church?
Regards,
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
I was baptise there in 2001 and became a member since then. Dr. Masters was involved in church planting before he moved to become the pastor of the Met Tab. His church plant is still functioning till today. As far as I was told, Peter Masters came into the Tab with only about 30 elderly people left. In fact, I was told that everyone came to the front for the Lord’s Supper when he first started – indicating how small the congregation was. A lot has happened since then…
If you want a more detailed history of the Tab, post-Spurgeon, please look up Jonathan Hunt’s blog – glosbaptist.blogspot.com
He is a die-hard Tab person, born and bred in the church. His Dad is a deacon, and his Mum is a staff worker of the Tab. He is the man.
Thanks, Jensen, very interesting site. The article on Met Tab history was quite interesting. I was amazed again at the pastorate of John Rippon – 63 years! Man! I have been at it in one place for 20 years and feel like I only have another decade or so in me. If I were to go that long I would be 93 when I quit. (Probably quitting feet first in a pine box!)
Anyway, thanks for the link.
Regards,
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3
Hi chris,
I have listened to and reviewed Masters second message you referenced here:
http://ebaptist.blogspot.com/2006/09/on-peter-masters-and-new-evangelical.html
Just wanted to give you a heads up.
Regards,
Don Johnson
Jer 33.3